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TOPIC: Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP

Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 2 months ago #45051

  • samus-aran
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Hi Everyone,

Just would like to address a particular subject that has been raised within Github and gather the feedback from the community to take back to the team.

We at SalesAgility are planning to deprecate the Suite7 and SuiteR theme from the next future release of SuiteCRM (SuiteCRM 7.9) which is planned for May 2017 - reference from github here.

The reason for this change is simply due to amount of resource required to support all three themes we feel can be put to better use. We want to introduce more drastic and technological changes to the application and we feel as a company and main contributors to the project that we are unable to to do this without requiring to sacrifice certain areas of the system that is legacy and high maintenance.

We wish to express that with this freed up time that more resource will be able to tackle the many functional issues we currently have and focus more on improving the integrity of the application.

Although we will be stepping back from these two themes we will of course merge any bug/theme fixes provided by the community (and our older internal provided fixes on Github) into the master branch but we ourselves will not be providing those fixes for those two themes (SuiteR & Suite7) from 7.9 onwards.

Below are currently the plans of deprecating the two themes (SuiteR & Suite7):

- Existing users will still be able to use SuiteR & Suite7 however new features will not be supported (this is including the new email client scheduled for 7.9)
- Existing users will be able enable the SuiteR & Suite7 themes via the themedefs file within their respective theme.
https://github.com/salesagility/SuiteCRM/blob/master/themes/SuiteR/themedef.php
https://github.com/salesagility/SuiteCRM/blob/master/themes/Suite7/themedef.php
- Upon upgrade to 7.9 Users will default to the SuiteP theme and SuiteR/Suite7 will not be enabled (unless they change the themedefs).

Now there has already been feedback raised of this change and I would like to bring that to the attention of our team to make the transition into this decision more easier and less painful to our users.

@pgorod brought up the point that the largest flaw of SuiteP is the lack of the ability to customise the theme.
The issue we currently, as pgorod brought up also, is that the HTML and CSS are very much has been merged together with the business backend of the system. We ourselves jokingly say to our fellow Sugar and Suite developers (though not really, we cry in the corner when no one is looking) that the application is 'kinda' MVC … but not. We know this is a limitation and we have already put into place steps to tackle this in our future, future releases, which has trickled down leading us, the team, to make the decision that we have presented to you today.
So we are here to find out from the community how to make SuiteP more adoptable as a theme and what is the biggest challenge people have to transition away from the legacy Suite7 & SuiteR themes?

A couple of ideas already raised:
- Introducing a UI to change the SuiteP theme colours (similar to the existing Suite7 & SuiteR)
- Ability and easily change a number of CSS variables i.e. padding, font size etc using SASS.
- Would this perhaps be simply a nice tutorial us developers can provide on a few 'predefined' padding ranges i.e. small, medium, large.

Your feedback and discussions are always welcomed and appreciated so please join us in how to achieve a happy medium to go forward with into 7.9.


UPDATED:

We at SalesAgility have heard your feedback, again - thank you for providing it, and have made the decision and put into place resources to continue to provide support for Suite7 & SuiteR via github for a limited time (though it will be a substantial amount of time..). We will however confirm that the depreciation of Suite7 & SuiteP will happen in SuiteCRM 7.9.

Regards to the SuiteP editor this is still in discussion and would more likely be a possibility in a minor release of 7.9.x or 7.10 to provide an idea of our timescales.
..........

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Last Edit: 2 years 1 month ago by samus-aran.
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 2 months ago #45056

  • pgr
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Copying from another discussion of this on Github,

I propose a "challenge" of sorts, a simple criterion to set the moment of deprecation of SuiteR: when it becomes possible to tweak SuiteP (from a UI or from SASS variables) in order to get equal values to SuiteR on:

- amount of visible recents/favorites listed on the side bar
- amount of visible dashlet items on home screen
- amount of visible lines on a list view
- amount of visible fields on a detail view
- height of navigation top menu
- height of buttons
- visible time slots in the calendar

Basically, when an unwanted change in compactness is not being forced on users, then the new Theme adoption will be painless, and we'd be able to appreciate all the positive points of the new theme.

I'd prefer a UI for this (and for the colours), but I'd be ok with any way to do it, like copying a SASS variables file and compiling it. But currently the SASS variables are not enough to achieve this goal.

Thanks for all the work and for the chance to discuss this here.

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Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by pgr. Reason: type, addition
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 2 months ago #45058

  • gunnicom
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Let me summarize how i see this:

You develop a new theme instead of fixing bugs.
So basically because of the time spend in the new theme there was no time left for fixing bugs.
And now you deprecate the only good themes in favor of a new bad theme because otherwise you wont have time for fixing bugs.

Applause.

And i look in the future, and i see, that the bugs still wont get fixed, because you have no time.
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 2 months ago #45066

  • horus68
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I do use SuiteP as the default template
You will never please all with just a single theme for all instances.
I do understand that a software needs to focus only in one template, its a normal workflow.
Bug fixing and feature implementation needs more time.

But...
Users do not have lots of options to tweek the template. In the actual state of things, I assume editing the template isn't a good thing for the SuiteCRM project too... as it can easily break the application itself.
In the future the layout must be decoupled from the contents so creating templates would be an easy task.
Until then, and to avoid the rage from all users a "Layout light personalization" feature.

Layout light personalization is required on any software. So please include:
- Color Schemes and an editable Color Palette in the admin area, one of them as a preset/default for testing issues.
- Fonts schemes
- Some layout config parameters so the layout could be considered "Customizable"!

Note: Color Schemes would also be useful for giving that "new release looks". Each release could have its color scheme.
And believe-me, any SalesAgility developer will be bored and tired with the actual SuiteP color looks when releasing 7.9.
Then what? Redesign it all just to change a color tone?
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Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by horus68.
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 2 months ago #45085

  • DJuser
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pgr wrote:
Copying from another discussion of this on Github,

Basically, when an unwanted change in compactness is not being forced on users, then the new Theme adoption will be painless, and we'd be able to appreciate all the positive points of the new theme.

I'd prefer a UI for this (and for the colours), but I'd be ok with any way to do it, like copying a SASS variables file and compiling it. But currently the SASS variables are not enough to achieve this goal.

I agree 100% with pgr here- a good plan.
I'd add - if SASS route is used: also needed is helpful easy-to-understand documentation to make it easy - A Wiki page / a video walkthrough/ maybe a couple of 'pre-cooked' examples people can quickly install and try.
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 2 months ago #45094

  • paullm
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P.S. I just saw this ...
Would this perhaps be simply a nice tutorial us developers can provide on a few 'predefined' padding ranges i.e. small, medium, large.

This is like your TV set's volume control having only 3 pre-defined fixed settings. It's impractical!

Just give the end-user the capability to fine-tune any settings to HIS needs ... 0 -100 for example. Never small, medium or large!
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 2 months ago #45098

  • samus-aran
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Thanks guys for all your feedback!

We'll keep this thread going over the coming weeks and see what else the Community would like to share with us to understand how to make SuiteP the preferred theme.
But from your views already its sounds like to really comes down to the ability to customise the theme more precisely than even what SuiteR & Suite7 provide rather than predetermined 'set of levels' i.e. small, medium large.
Also in regards to bug fixing and deprecating the themes they are in hand in hand and we have already scheduled dedicate time for bug fixing because of the freed up resource :)
..........

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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 2 months ago #45101

  • paullm
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My sub-conscious brain is working overtime, here!

If you are going to consider more theme customization capability ... colors, spacing, etc. ... in a future release, what would be really nice is having the ability to store those sets of customized settings in theme "configuration" or "style" files (which are named, set up and maintained by System Administrators).

The desired style would then be selected when a user logs in to SuiteCRM, from whatever device they are using ... e.g.

Username: paullm
Password: ********
Theme Style: iphone

Username: paullm
Password: ********
Theme Style: Nantucket

The style selection would be a drop-down list of available styles, optimized for the type of device or simply the "look". e.g. iphone, mypad, desktop, style1, style 2, blue, gray, black and white, Nantucket, Summer, Autumn, wide-space, narrow-space, ... whatever!
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 2 months ago #45107

  • pgr
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@samus-aran thanks for the info.

Just beware, tweaking paddings and spacings is not as easy at tweaking colors and fonts.

I think you will face difficulties in getting this right. Sure, all that's needed is a bunch of easy fixes to the layout, but so many of them, in so many places, that it adds up. Basically, the past 6 months of getting SuiteP just right, will have to happen all over again, and with the additional difficulty of making it adjustable.

I can think of a hundred web apps with themes that change backgrounds, colors, and fonts; but only a few that have compact/normal/large modes, which are tougher to get right.

I hope that by "bug-fixing" you mean "PR-merging". There are so many bugs that have been fixed for a looong time that are still waiting to be merged. Anyway, I'm happy with the news you give us about the time scheduled for this. : - )

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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 1 month ago #46122

  • samus-aran
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Hi Everyone,

Just a quick update - we'll make a fuller announcement very soon.
We are still going ahead with deprecating the SuiteR and Suite7 themes from SuiteCRM 7.9 onwards, However we will continue to support all three themes for a while yet. This means that we would continue to provide fixes for critical visual aspects of the three themes via Github.

Regards to the SuiteP editor, as I briefly mentioned in our Suggestion Box that current development has already started for SuiteCRM 7.9 and the possibility of having an editor would be more likely in a minor release of 7.9.x or 7.10 just to give you an idea of our time scales.
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 2 years 1 month ago #46148

  • item
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Hi,
first I thank you all Teams and CEO of SaleAgility.. because without you..

Yes you have roadmap, you work hard...you develop theme, but for me (and i think I am not alone).. theme must be in second plan because a CRM must be fully functional.

Camping is buggy
Email is obsolete and buggy (I know, it's on your roadmap)
Last Theme is buggy with on Mac platform (and not only on mac)

Api is on roadmap and will change.. but no information is given
yahoo js must be changed..
tpl must be changed..

Witch technology you have decided to use.. nobody say about that.. and one day, you will say : this is .. but we have to be prepared to this changement.

Please, first, fix all "bug".. and a better "help/sample/howto".. as I know, all info we help me, I find it in sugarcrm wiki.

Regards
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 1 year 11 months ago #48718

  • mak2323
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I appreciated everything that you all do. I would prefer to have the flexibility to choose colors. Personally the blue in suite R looks much better and is easier on the eyes than suite P. Your help in allowing us to choose colors on the theme would be awesome!
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 1 year 8 months ago #52389

  • gitbnw
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My 2 cents: one theme without bugs > 3 themes with bugs.
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 1 year 8 months ago #53207

  • mbates14
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I am really upset right now. Honestly.

First off, When I installed SuiteCRM a couple years back, the first thing I did was ditch the Suite P. its too large, loud, and ugly. I didnt like Suite 7 either. But I fell in love with SuiteR, its just right, just perfect.

Time went on, never thought anything of it. I try to keep SuiteCRM up to date, not only for the bugs, but for exploit fixes as time goes by.

Downloaded 7.9, and I got FORCED back to Suite P, and it.. Still, is ugly, loud, and too big!

But now GONE are my options! WTF? Really Microsoft? Oops I mean Sales-corporate-conglomeration?

And its not intuitive on how to get them back.
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Deprecation of SuiteR & Suite7 themes - discussion on adopting SuiteP 1 year 8 months ago #53208

  • paullm
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@mbates14 ... you still have options:

1. Go back to 7.8.x, which has the Suite R theme, along with long-term support.

2. Stay with 7.9.x, but check out the Suite P "improved" or "compact" modified theme, mentioned and downloadable elsewhere on this forum.

SA are addressing the Suite P spacing issue, but the above will tide you over, until 7.10.
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